| What Kinds of Food Should I Store? |
Date: July 17, 1997 11:19 AM
Author: Bob Hansen(bobh@ndb.net)
Subject: What foods will store for a long time?
I can only guess the reason food storage companies sell so many whole seeds is because they store so well. But I'm wondering, what other foods do you expect would be long storing items?
Bob
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Date: July 22, 1997 11:43 AM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Items that store well, and a couple of others that don't
The reason whole seeds (beans, wheat, corn, spelt...) store so well is because the outer shell of the seed is almost always nature's near perfect container. As long as the seed remains unbroken, this outer shell will keep it's contents wholesome many times longer than if it was opened.
Almost any food in it's dehydrated form stores well. Perhaps we should mention foods that don't. Dehydrated fruit is only good for a year or two unless it is packed in the absence of oxygen. And brown rice doesn't store very well. The fatty acids in the outer layers of the rice kernels go rancid rather quickly and because of this, under normal conditions, you probably shouldn't try to keep it longer than a year.
There are other foods that store well. Pasta, dehydrated non-fat milk, powdered cheeses, powdered eggs, texturized vegetable protein and flour. But these items don't store as well as whole seeds and should be stored in the absence of oxygen. Also, don't plan on storing these items as long as you would for whole seeds. It is often a good idea to store many of these items in #10 cans as you won't be opening up such a large amount at one time and exposing it to the air. Where can you find a place to put your stuff in cans with oxygen absorbers? Check the Latter-day Saint Church family canneries. They will help you can your own dry goods and charge you only the cost of the cans and the oxygen absorbers. And you don't have to be a member to use their facilities. Look in the yellow pages under Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for a cannery near you. Or you can get your goods already packaged for long term storage from a food storage company.
Al
See http://waltonfeed.com/grain/faqs/vi-c.html for a listing of food storage companies.
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Date: July 28, 1997 07:35 PM
Author: Dennis(ddelauri@intertex.net)
Subject: Who well does yellow corn meal store
Hi AL I just put up some yellow corn meal. I used nitrogen, two oxygen packs and a dessicant. I am now wondering if corn meal stores well. The maximum storage temperature will be about 79 deg. I have the same question about white rice. Thanks Dennis
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Date: July 29, 1997 04:29 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Storage life of corn
Denis,
I presume you have already seen our storage life of foods page at http://waltonfeed.com/grain/life.html
From the sounds of your post you have surely gone the extra mile to store your corn meal away correctly. That 79 degrees F, however, is going to shorten your storage life somewhat. I would guess that for at least 9 months out of the year your corn will probably be cooler than this. As the storage temperature is the most important storage consideration, you should take as many steps as you can practically take to keep it as cool as possible. Under your present circumstances, however, you can probably get at least 3 or 4 years out of your corn meal, maybe more. As storage life being the only consideration presently, you would have gotten an extra 3-5 years out of it if you had stored corn instead of corn meal. True, you would need a grain grinder to grind it, but it would be so much more nutritious and long storing this way.
Al
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Date: July 29, 1997 06:43 PM
Author: Dennis(ddelauri@intertex.net)
Subject: Food storage life
Thank you, the food storage life page was what I was looking for. Yes, living in south Texas means being hot! The house is air conditioned, so 79 may be on the high side. For part of the year, perhaps three to four months, it is cooler. I just want to get a year or two past yr2000 before I have to think about replacing it. I think I will try corn seed like you suggested. I priced a small nitrogen tank for around 80 dollars. Simple valves for regulating the pressure are around 40 dollars, and a nitrogen recharge was 40 dollars. One charge should last a long long time. Cheers Dennis "Being happy is a CHOICE we can all make"
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Date: July 31, 1997 04:18 PM
Author: Bill Webert(webert01@hotmail.com)
Subject: Do it yourself nitrogen packing?
I have heard of using dry ice to displace air in 5 gallon buckets, but I don't know how to go about using bottled nitrogen. How would this be done? Is Nitrogen heavier than air? How can you ensure that all the air has been displaced? Is this more cost effective than CO2?
I would appreciate any insight that could be shared!
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Date: August 04, 1997 05:18 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Using Nitrogen
Alan T. Hagan, who writes the newsgroup misc.survival food storage FAQs, has a detailed description of this in his FAQs. Instead of posting the whole thing here, take a look at http://waltonfeed.com/grain/faqs/iia43.html
If you have any questions after reading this, please don't hesitate to ask,
Al
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Date: July 30, 1997 09:29 PM
Author: Dennis(ddelauri@intertex.net)
Subject: How would I clean and store bulk corn
Hello I have found a source for bulk corn. This corn will be harvested in the next two weeks. Any suggestions for cleaning and removing the live critters, eggs etc that may come with the corn? I was thinking about freezing it before I stored it in five gal. buckets. Would that work? Thanks Dennis
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Date: July 31, 1997 07:50 PM
Author: Geri Guidetti(arkinst@concentric.net)
I have done this two ways over the years and have yet to have an infestation. The easiest is to take the very dry corn kernels, put them in big, airtight containers, preferably with desiccant packets inside, and put into the deep freeze for a few days. Remove if you have a lot of corn and need the freezer space. Place in a cool, dark place.
To save corn for seed purposes, leave some in the freezer. Canning jars with new lids and dessicant packets work very well for this. Be sure to let stand with desiccant at room temp for 24 hours first. Seeds with any appreciable residual moisture will have their little cells blow up in the freezer as the water expands :).
Second method is the dry-ice-in-the-bottom-of-the-bucket trick--a few ounces in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket, enough to cause the bucket to fill with CO2, displacing air, and then put the lid on. Be sure it does not bulge with more sublimating CO2. If it does, ease the cover up, let the excess flow out and then cover. When all done, tape with duct tape. Again, it must be DRY corn. CO2 suffocates all young'uns in the corn. Grain weevils don't like it, but sure makes the corn more fun to eat!
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Date: August 05, 1997 09:35 AM
Author: Bill Webert(webert01@hotmail.com)
Subject: Dry ice in bottom or top of container?
I thought that CO2 was heavier than air, and therefore should be placed on top of the material in containers rather than at the bottom. If it is heavier than air and is placed at the bottom of the container, it wouldn't displace any of the air in the container.
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Date: August 05, 1997 11:44 AM
Author: Matthew Adamson(m_adamson@hotmail.com)
Subject: Place in Bottom of Container
Dry ice should be placed in the bottom of a container. As it sublimates it pushes the air out of the top. You can tell when the sublimation process is finished, the cloudy sublimate will stop seeping out of the mostly covered top. (Note: The lid of your container should be loosely set on top of the grain-filled container during sublimation.)
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=1043)
Date: August 05, 1997 01:09 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: The bottom is where I put it...
I'm with Matthew.
From all the good reasons he gave, there is another reason why I like to put it in the bottom of the bucket and then pour the product over the top of it. Have you ever wondered if all the dry ice has 'melted'? Just carefully pick it up and feel the bottom. If it is still icy cold you will know that it hasn't all evaporated. When the bottom begins to warm, you know it's safe to seal the lid.
Al
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Date: August 05, 1997 10:05 PM
Author: Geri Guidetti(arkinst@concentric.net)
Yes, count me in with Matthew and Al. The only way you have to be certain that all of the air--including oxygen, nitrogen and other stuff--is out of the container, is by having it pushed UP and OUT by the sublimating CO2. The CO2 literally displaces it. If you put a block of CO2 on top, it may literally "cap" over pockets of air within the wheat, trapping them inside the barrel...Geri
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Date: August 15, 1997 05:08 PM
Author: Joe Jeffries(joejeffries@hotmail.com)
Subject: Dessicant packages
Thanks for the tips. Where do you get dessicant packages?
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Date: August 15, 1997 10:33 PM
Author: Geri Guidetti(arkinst@concentric.net)
Joe, I think Walton's carries them. Check it out on the Walton Feed Web Site. Get in touch with Al Durtschi to order them.
For seed storage, I have used silica gel packets that you can get from a crafts store to dry flowers for floral arrangements. I have used calcium chloride crystals of a product called Damp Rid available in a local hardware store for seed packet storage. BUT, in the case of the latter, it is an irritant and should not be used around young children. I package the crystals up in smaller sized mailing envelopes, seal the seams with Scotch tape and place in the bottom of my seed jars. Then I put the seed packets on top of that, and seal the jars so they are airtight. This latter step is critical! If you don't seal it airtight, water will be pulled INTO the jar by the anhydrous crystals, just the opposite of what you want to do. Use new Ball canning lids on commercial canning jars or Hellman's/Best Foods/and Kraft mayonnaise jars. NEW canning lids. Only 89 cents for a dozen new sealing lids if you own some rings already. I hope this helps....Geri
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Date: October 06, 1997 08:45 PM
Author: Monica George(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Storing Corn and Soybeans
I thought I read somewhere that corn will keep in its "natural container" in a burlap bag...I think it was someone who purchased 50 pounds of it at the feed store...What would happen if it were store cool and dark but in burlap bags? Isn't that the way they used to do it? Also, what kind of risk am I taking with wheat (from locally here) and soybeans? How do I clean soybeans? Same way? Thank you. Monica George
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3675)
Date: October 09, 1997 09:28 AM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Nature truly is a wonderful thing. Take wheat for example. The outer shell is just about nature's perfect container. In this container the nutrition in the wheat will last for many years. Break it open and it immediately starts to deteriorate. This is also true with many other seeds. This topic is discussed in some detail at http://waltonfeed.com/grain/
Nothing lasts forever, however. For my own personal food supply, the stuff we are going to eat up within the next year I get in bags. Why go to the extra expense of packing it for long term storage if you are just going to eat it relatively immediately??? If you store the corn cool, bug free and dry, you can probably easily get 2-3 years out of it. If you keep your stock rotated, that may very well be all you need.
The bugs are a whole different question.
Al
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Date: September 29, 1997 05:02 PM
Author: Joe Jeffries(joejeffries@hotmail.com)
Subject: CORN IN 50 lb BAGS?
I plan to learn to grow "dent" corn to grind into meal for the family and to feed the chickens and cow we plan to get. Dried corn stores easily, so it is good thing to grow.
The rule, as AL has stated, is "learn to cook and eat what you are going to rely on for survival". So, AL, I bought some of your pails of wheat, bought a grinder, learned how to make yeast substitute by starting sourdough, and learned how to bake bread. (All this took months, by the way!)
What about the hard, dried, whole corn that I will be growing? I wanted to try making some corn bread straight from the hard whole kernels. Where could I get some? Try a feed store. What did I get? They only had 50 lb bags! So I got one for $4.50.
I had bought a heavy grinder at a garage sale so I cracked some corn on a coarse setting, then ground it to meal on a fine setting. "The Joy of Cooking" cookbook has a recipe that wants 3/4 cup wheat to 1-1/4 cup corn meal, and says you can go heavier either way for a two cup total. The recipe also called for milk, an egg, and salt. Wheat and salt I store, I plan to have a cow and chickens.
It also called for sugar and baking powder which you can store - I think Al has baking powder for long storage at waltonfeed. But just like I learned to bake bread without yeast I said, "What if I have no sugar or baking powder?" So I baked two batches one with only fresh ground whole wheat flour, fresh ground corn meal, egg, milk and salt and the other also added sugar and baking powder.
The writers of the book would have had a fit about the whole wheat flour and ground-up feed corn!
What was the result? My wife and little girl couldn't stop eating the fluffy sweet batch with the sugar and baking powder. I couldn't stop eating the other somewhat heavier, but still "corn-bread-like" cakes. As Geri Guidetti would say, "It had a very strong, satisfying 'corny' taste."
So, here is the question. You can buy 40 sacks, ONE TON, of this corn for only $180.00!! I gather that its storage, just as it is in the sacks, would be several years. Would this be a good purchase now, or perhaps a year from now, for use the first year or so of y2k?
-Joe
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Date: September 30, 1997 07:51 PM
Author: Liz(Sunsethill@juno.com)
Subject: Minimal corn bread
Just a note on how basic corn bread can be. My husband is allergic to wheat, milk and eggs, and as a true southerner HAS to have his cornbread, so I have learned to make it with just cornmeal, salt, baking soda, water, and olive oil. Part of the trick is to cook it in an iron skillet so it gets a crispy crust. We enjoy it and it's good to know we won't need much to make corn bread we can eat. That's not to say I wouldn't like to be able to put in all those other goodies, but my husband would NEVER allow the sugar. Says it's almost sacriligious!:-) Liz
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Date: October 02, 1997 09:52 AM
Author: Joe Jeffries(joejeffries@hotmail.com)
Subject: CAN WE HAVE THE CORNBREAD RECIPE?
Liz, oh, Liz -- can you share that recipe with us? Sounds like a great survival recipe!
Hey, I agree about the sugar. I am a Northerner with Southern parents. You don't put sugar on grits, cream of wheat, or in cornmeal! My wife is a Southerner. She puts sugar in all three. Go figure. It ain't the Southern way.
On a business trip to L.A. a local diner had never heard of grits. And I hated the hashbrowns they offered in its place! (Hey, Al, how do you make grits? When I grind the corn I get cornmeal!)
By the way, I bet if you make your recipe without the baking soda it will still make excellent heavy cornbread cakes. I intend to try if you share the recipe!
thanks, Joe
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Date: October 03, 1997 12:44 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Grits
>(Hey, Al, how do you make grits? When I grind the corn I get cornmeal!)
Grits is made from corn with the outer shell removed. I expect this would be something rather hard for us to do at home.
Al
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Date: October 03, 1997 03:42 PM
Author: Geri Guidetti(arkinst@concentric.net)
Ah, the mystery of grits! Maybe I can help out here a bit, Al. The American Indians discovered, quite by accident according to lore, that a pot full of corn kernels boiling in water lost their skins if the cook accidently got some of the white ashes from the fire in the pot while cooking. *Aha!* she exclaimed! Now I know how to get those tough skins off the corn.*
Today, whole hominy or skinless corn kernels, white or yellow, is made by treating corn with hydrated lime or a combination of anhydrous lime, calcium carbonate, lye or yes, even wood ash by some. The alkaline water loosens the hulls and causes the kernels to puff up larger than they would be in their natural state. They are then rinsed, skins floated to the top and poured off. The skinless kernels can be dried and eaten as "corn nuts" or ground into the Mexican masa harina flour used to make corn tortillas.
Hominy GRITS are made from white, preferably stone ground, dried hominy corn. The coarser grinds take longer to cook, of course, than the fine and the stone ground longer than the (yucky) degerminated--de-vitamined--variety. You didn't think I'd write all this without making at least one pitch for the whole grain, did you?
Now, if you would like to try this, I would suggest taking a small pot of corn, using CLEAN, wood-ONLY ash and add a pinch at a time till the seed coats or testas leave the kernels. Ah, what fun this all is!.....Geri Guidetti, Non-hybrid Gardening Forum moderator.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3509)
Date: October 06, 1997 11:41 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Thanks, Geri. This sounds great. I think I'll try it.
Al
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Date: October 03, 1997 07:46 PM
Author: Liz(Sunsethill@juno.com)
Subject: Cornbread "Recipe"
Dear Joe, I hate to admit that I'm one of those people who can't seem to make something come out the same way two times in a row, so I will tell you in general how I make the cornbread, and you can play with the procedure to find how you like it. We have a big family, so I thoroughly oil a large #10 iron skillet and put it in a 450 degree oven to heat. Then I use 4 cups of cornmeal and pour some oil, probably about 2 tbsp., in and mix. Add 3 cups of water. The salt and leavening is hard to tell because at this time I use a good ole Southern stone ground self-rising meal. My mill is on order with Walton's so I'll get to play with my own recipe when it comes and I start grinding. Maybe someone could give better hints on salt and baking powder amounts. Then pour mixture into hot pan and bake for 30 minutes. Because it has no milk or flour in it, it tends to stick to the pan, so I let it cool in the pan for 5-10 minutes and then invert on a plate. Don't let it get cool or your butter won't melt down into all the pores and make it REALLY good. Hope this helps. By the way, my husband grew up in the mountains, and they didn't have grits, so we put sugar in them. Sorry to disillusion you. ;-) Liz
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Date: September 20, 1997 05:41 PM
Author: Michelle Rezentes(Mr rez@aol.com)
Subject: Food Storage Questions
I knew absolutely nothing about the ins and outs of food storage two days ago but after careful study at the Waldon Foods web site, I have learned sooo much that I could answer many of the questions posted on the site plus many many more. I am in the process of ordering books on the subject but it will be awhile until they are in and for those of you in the same boat, I highly recommend studying the many many useful links and pages at this site. It may make your food investment last longer. Michelle
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=2868)
Date: September 20, 1997 07:59 PM
Author: Geri Guidetti(arkinst@concentric.net)
I couldn't agree with you more, Michelle. Al Durtschi has one fabulous site for Walton's. He's done it all himself as far as I know, and has a wealth of information and links that I don't think you can find anywhere else. Take advantage of it. Come Y2K, all bets are off on the availability of all of this great, free information...Geri Guidetti
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=2874)
Date: September 21, 1997 09:12 PM
Author: Will Richards(will_richards@hotmail.com)
Subject: He is likable!
Beside that he is one heck of likable guy.
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Date: October 03, 1997 12:19 AM
Author: Monica George(monicageorge@usa.net)
Subject: Make a "Manual"
Michelle and Gerri-Yes. There is an unbelievable amt. of great info. which has cut time frames (that we do not have). I print out reams so that I have my manuals for reference later to remind me. Also, after I make mistakes, I can look it up again!
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3478)
Date: October 02, 1997 02:10 PM
Author: Rocky(Rocky-b@usa.net)
Subject: Rice
What kind of rice should be stored, white, instant, or brown?
I thought that I have read some things about the brown rice having some characteristic that made long term storage not practical.
I am planning to use nitrogen (dry ice) packging in used food quality buckets.
(http://garynorth.entrewave.com/forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=16&Message_ID=3441)
Date: October 03, 1997 12:59 PM
Author: Al Durtschi(mark@waltonfeed.com)
Subject: Storing rice.
You should store white rice if you want to get the best storage life/nutritional value. Nutritionally, brown rice is much better but the fatty acids in brown rice go rancid over time. Most experts believe that 6 months to a year is about all you are going to get out of brown rice before this starts happening. If you nitrogen pack it and keep it cool you can extend this quite a bit. The instant rice has been processed quite a bit more and has less nutrition than the white rice. I'm not familiar with it's storing characteristics but would guess it will store about the same as white rice. We at Walton Feed think you can get 8-10 years out of white rice if you pack it away in nitrogen and keep it 70 degrees F or below.
For more info on this topic, see http://waltonfeed.com/grain/life.html
Al
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